Posted by chicagomedia.org on January 11, 2009 at 19:35:29:
In Reply to: Phil Rosenthal On Conan O'Brien's Chicago Media Visit posted by chicagomedia.org on January 11, 2009 at 06:59:23:
Originally posted: January 11, 2009
---------
Conan O'Brien bonus: On "Tonight," "Late Night," Leno, TV, 'comedy compression,' the Universal log ride, a certain Bear and more -- the complete interview
Conan O'Brien and I had an excellent discussion about him leaving "Late Night" (and a certain Bear) for "The Tonight Show" in the coming weeks and a variety of other topics when he visited Chicago's WMAQ-Ch. 5 on Friday.
Between the quick turnaround for my Sunday column in the Chicago Tribune and the inherent space limitations of print, I had to leave out a lot of what he said -- insights that those interested in O'Brien, late-night television and/or the overall state of the media business still are likely to want to read.
So I'm opening up my notebook here and sharing all Conan had to say over the course of 30 minutes or so, arranged and edited by subject matter. Enjoy.
On visiting stations before taking over "The Tonight Show":
We just started. We went to Detroit this morning and now here. This is the start, and I kind of like these things because this is old-school television. You actually go into America and you talk to these people who put your television show on. I really find it fascinating. I don't know if this is how TV will be in 10, 15, 20 years.
It's amazing. There are people like you who remember when I first came on in 1993 and that's now almost 16 years ago. Think of how many times television has changed since then. When I started, you would go to these big banquets and there would be this giant NBC peacock in ice and people jumping off the balcony, throwing rum drinks at each other and laughing maniacally. It was like the fall of Rome. It turns out it was the fall of Rome. Now it's a cash bar at the NBC Store. It's all changing.
On what exactly he's taking over on June 1, when he succeeds Jay Leno as host of "The Tonight Show":
"The Tonight Show" is what it means to you. Not to try to sound too Zen, but I'm not taking over Johnny Carson's "Tonight Show" and it's not really going to be Jay Leno's "Tonight Show," either. One of the questions I have to resolve by doing this show is: What is a 21st century "Tonight Show"? What is a "Tonight Show" in 2010, '11, '12, in a world where there are DVRs and 300 cable channels and there's so much specialization in TV?
We both know that the days of all America huddling around their TV set to watch 'The Tonight Show' to find out what the single comedic take is on the news -– which is what I think Johnny's show really was for so many years in the '60s and '70s and even into the '80s –- that has changed. The first change was, oh, it's [David] Letterman and Leno. But forget network, forget that there are a bunch of network shows and everyone has their own take. There's also a world of so much specialization that there are the Comedy Central shows that just specialize in doing a take on the day's news and there's variety in those.
So I think the biggest mistake that I could make with "The Tonight Show" is to try to be all things to all people because I don't think anybody even wants that anymore. Do you know what I mean? Johnny Carson once said these jobs are all about the guy behind the desk. My job is I have a comedic sensibility that I think I've established over the years and what I'd really like to do is take my sensibility to a new environment. I've been doing it for 15, 16 years. "The Tonight Show" is the show that Steve Allen had and Jack Paar and Johnny Carson and Jay Leno. My job is to take my sensibility and see what happens to it when I get into this environment.
When we do our shows on the road, when we came to Chicago, when we go to Toronto, when we go to San Francisco, it's still my sense of humor. But if you watch those shows, you see that the shows are different from the one we do in New York. Something has changed, and some of it is hard to define. So I think there are going to be some things that change.
On how simply having a new host changes "The Tonight Show":
There was the show Steve Allen was doing, which had a lot of the kinds of stunts that Letterman later did, a lot of the dunking in liquids, a lot of the man-on-the-street, playing with reality. Steve Allen had that "Tonight Show." Then you have Jack Paar, who had this witty urbane "Tonight Show." He's talking to theater critics, art critics, Judy Garland, great actors -- it's a sophisticated salon. Then you've got Johnny and when Johnny replaced Jack Paar, I think there were people who thought: You've got this guy throwing tomahawks with Ed Ames. He's dressing up as Aunt Blabby. He's got a sidekick snickering at everything he's doing. There were probably people saying: "Wait a minute. Where is my Jack Paar, sitting on a stool discussing his night out at the theater or having a conversation with Robert F. Kennedy?"
What happens if you put your imprint on these shows, eventually what happens with "The Tonight Show" if you do it right and you do it your own way, is that people can't imagine it being done any other way. I'm fully aware that when I get into this show and start doing it my way, there will be people saying, "This doesn't look right to me" right away. Because it won't. Suddenly you've moved the bureau. The bureau's been over here by the window, and suddenly I moved it. Someone comes in and says, "The bureau just felt right over there." Well, that's because that's where it's been for the last 10 or 15 years.
I'm saying that Jay is a bureau.
On his new TV home being on the NBC Universal movie lot, which is adjacent to the Universal Studios theme park:
We are not near the theme park and our ticketing [is not connected]. Somehow this word got out that: "Yeah, go to the theme park! Get a Slurpee and get your Conan tickets!" No, no, no. We want to be in a different world because I don't want to be the least exciting thing in that place. I don't want someone who's just been through a log flume and has 65 liters of a sugar drink in them then watching me chat.
On what he has wanted in the new studio NBC is custom-building for him at Universal:
We're talking about a studio that's bigger than the one I have now but I'm being very careful to make sure it's not giant. The best phrase that I've heard, Dana Carvey told me that one things I have in [30 Rock's "Late Night" home, Studio] 6A is comedy compression. It's how the internal combustion engine works -– a confined space, gas, [spark] and suddenly a lot of pistons are moving –- and that's the thing I've been on top of with the construction of this space since Day One.
I want to be able to accommodate more audience. I've been in the business long enough and I've done so many venues. I've done giant theaters and practically stadiums. The Chicago Theatre, I think we had 4,500 people or something there a night. But there comes a point where you go back and you have 190 people in your audience and you feel like "I need it to be more than this." I want a slightly bigger feel, but I still want the intimacy.
You need intimacy. You want to allow for the possibility of a herd of elephants wandering in, but the funniest things that happen on my show a lot of times are small moments that happen in a small space and then expand. I'm really bent on making sure that we pull everything in a little bit and I've been accused sometimes by designers of trying to pull it in too much, so literally there won't be room to come out and say hello. I think it will look big on TV, but my hope is it won't be that big.
I've seen a lot of hosts over the years that came and went. They get their show and they go and get a giant space and then it takes 10 minutes for them to come out and get to their monologue mark and for guests to make an entrance. They wanted a big show and the reality is you get to a certain size and unless you're Gallagher and you're smashing watermelons with a mallet, you've lost people beyond the eighth row. So that is the first thing that I've been thinking about. I am hyper-aware of it.
Our space will be bigger because it's "The Tonight Show." It's a similar size to Jay's, which, as a guest, I've found to be very comfortable. But mine will be a little less of that spread-out feel.
On the adjustments he'll make because "Tonight" airs an hour earlier than "Late Night" has:
You don't want to get too cerebral about it because the biggest rule is to not over-think it. But I think it's possible that the difference between [a 10:35 p.m. Central] show and [an 11:35 p.m. Central] show isn't what it used to be because TV isn't as hierarchical as it used to be. It's not that there's this time slot and that time slot and the holy time slot. In this time slot, I'll be seen by more people. I'll probably be seen by a more diverse group, but I don't know. TV is changing so much. There are a lot of people I talk to now who watch my show on DVR and there are people checking things out on the Web. Things go viral.
Nobody really knows how comedy works. People who do comedy don't know how comedy works. It's a weird magical thing. I'm sometimes really funny when I'm not even thinking about it, and sometimes when I really think about it a lot, I'm not that funny. And so I'm always fighting the tendency to make too many rules. When I think something's really funny [in the "Late Night" slot], I do it. If I think something's funny, I'll want to do it [on "Tonight"] and I don't think there are going to be a lot of society women from an old Three Stooges short going, "Oh my" And if there are, I might be willing to take that risk.
We have a censor who's always telling all these things we can and can't do, and then I'll turn on MTV at 5 o'clock in the afternoon and naked women with their important parts covered with shaving cream are grinding. My kid could come in and see that. My point is, I don't want to overthink it. I want to just try to do a funny show. It's funny man be funny. Then there are small adjustments that you make that I probably will make.
There are things that I did in my 30s and early 40s, like Masturbating Bear, that I'm sure some frat guys will say, "You sold out by not doing Masturbating Bear." But I'm tired of it. I'm 45 years old. A lot of it is I was 29 when I auditioned for this job. I'm 45 and I have two kids now. I'm interested in evolving, I'm interested in changing and I believe in saying goodbye to some things. But I think a good Triumph [the Insult Comic Dog] piece can air on "The Tonight Show." A good Triumph piece can air anywhere.
What I would say is there was a kind of comedy that we did a lot of [on "Late Night"] that flourished there and was special to our show where we would go through an altered reality for a long period of time. I don't think we'll do that [on "Tonight"] as much. I probably can't even tell you why. But there's a kind of bit we did that I think was very special to the "Late Night" show.
It was the kind of bit where I commit to a reality. We come back from a commercial and all of a sudden I notice something like a broken tea cup and then a little gnome comes out and I follow him into a magical world and we cut to a long pre-tape and there's a talking goat. All these crazy things happen and there's a suspension of disbelief that last for eight minutes and then the piece ends with a song. I don't think I'll be doing that on "The Tonight Show."
I'm not saying I'm going to outlaw that kind of thing altogether. We're going to do it in a slightly different way. But there's a way you can indulge yourself at 1:15 in the morning [Eastern] and you're 35 years old and you just don't give a [expletive] and we would really stretch it out there. That's kind of what the [later time period] is for. It's a chemistry lab where half the time things blow up and you get your hand burned, but sometimes you get a really cool cloud if smoke, and the fire department is always shutting you down. This is "The Tonight Show" and I think I will try to moderate that somewhat. But in the same way I want it to be really funny and some nights I want something to catch fire, I want to blow off my hand.
On what a performer can get away with from a comedic standpoint once the audience grows accustomed to him or her:
There are hosts who have a sense of their personal dignity, and I don't. I'm very kid-like and I'm physical. I'm comfortable putting on a giant spangled cowboy hat and singing a rockabilly song. I'm comfortable tackling a bear. I'm comfortable in Telemundo Moment. I'm comfortable jumping into a hot tub. I'm comfortable doing things and I think I will be when I'm 65. It's just the way I am. And I'm going to take that to "The Tonight Show" and I'm going to do that. And I'll probably jump around too much. And I'll probably get a network note that I need to settle down and I won't. That will be an extension of who I am.
On what impact NBC giving Jay Leno a Monday-through-Friday prime-time show to keep from leaving for ABC will have on the new "Tonight Show":
I fully expect the media will speculate over what this means and we're all going to find out in the next couple years.
My big answer to that is anyone who says they know the answer to that is lying. I don't know. I'm happy that Jay is staying at NBC. I like Jay and I like this having a friendly resolution. I have no interest in another late-night war. The media likes it, but I don't think Jay likes that and I don't like that. That's not the kind of people we are. I don't think I get anything from that and I don't think Jay gets anything from that. So I'm happy that was resolved in a nice way.
Do I know exactly how this is going to play out for everybody? No. I don't think any of us really knows. I think TV's changing so much.
What I decided when I heard about this is to say: Look, I'm happy he's staying. I don't know exactly how this is going to play out, but nothing has changed for me. I'm hosting "The Tonight Show." That's the show I watched with my dad when I was 10. That is something that really resonates with me. That has a lot of meaning for me. It's an honor and I intend to give it my best shot. I'm just putting my blinders on and do that. I'm not going to worry too much about what anybody else is doing. That's how this plays out for me, personally.
On whether NBC has told him to do one kind of show and Leno to do another, to differentiate their programs:
You know what's interesting? For 16 years or whatever, he's been on at 11:30 [p.m. Eastern] and I've been on at 12:30 [a.m. Eastern], I've never once had that conversation with anyone. No one ever came to me. We just developed a brand because the brand is an extension of who I am and I did the kinds of things I like to do and I'm the kind of person I am. It never occurred to me to tailor my show in any way or react to what anyone else was doing. I don't even know how to do that.
This isn't a great answer for you, but it's the truth. You get into these situations and it's very much like war or football. You have a plan, you think you know what you're doing and then you get into it and everything changes. That's exactly what's going to happen.
We're going to have a lot of ideas, a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of energy. You and I both know that we're going to do a bunch of things right. We're going to do some things that aren't right. I'm going to make mistakes. We're going to make adjustments. We're going to find what the show is.
What I've always said about the "Late Night" show is it's a work in progress. It still is. The "Late Night" show has constantly changed in small ways and I've changed as a performer in small ways -- and in big ways. There was a period of steep growth in the first three years. Then we sort of leveled off and we have this period. Then Andy [Richter, O'Brien's sidekick] left and I completely started to change my style and grew. Then I became this person, and I feel I changed a lot since [last season's writers] strike.
Since the strike we've changed a lot of things about the show because the strike made me feel, like, wait a minute, maybe we were getting too set in our ways. And in preparation for this other change, we've just got to start changing things again to keep it fresh. We started doing whole Act Ones just with me standing up, just to try it, just to do it. We started trying different kinds of pieces.
Now I'm entering this new situation and it's going to have to change again. And I think of the people I really admire musically, whether it's the Beatles or [Bob] Dylan or [David] Bowie, they're people who forced themselves to change and adapt. I think there's an Eric Clapton line. Keep moving. Just keep moving or die. That's what this is.
People romanticize things about my show and sometimes they start talking and I realize they're talking about something like Pimpbot that we haven't done since 1995. In their mind, they think, oh, you're still going to do Pimpbot. And I go: "I haven't done Pimpbot since the first Clinton administration. What are you talking about? But you're still going to be mad if it doesn't show up on 'The Tonight Show'?" We're going to get in this situation and do the best we can.
On the end of his run on "Late Night":
I know I'm getting "The Tonight Show," but the seminal broadcasting experience of my life is always going to be the "Late Night" show. Because you're only that young and crazy and hungry and deluded once. It's Rockefeller Center, David Letterman's studio and that crazy story that we went through. I almost got [axed] five times and shouldn't even be here. Nothing can match that. So I am going to cry like a baby for a while when this show is over.
(Phil Rosenthal, Chicago Tribune)